Hello Piper Owners,
I was just curious if anyone could offer advice on setting up a Cherokee Six partnership and what a fair fee structure was. I am planning on structuring it as a non owner buy in partnership with about 4-5 guys but am unsure on what to charge fee wise. Thanks in advance for any help or advice that can be offered. Dan
First, I think you will have to redefine your structure. Partnership by definition implies shared ownership. Go to the insurance company and tell them you want to set up a partnership and they will want to know percentage of each owner so they can structure insurance claim payout. I think what you are going to have to set up is a non-equity Club.
Having said that, getting back to your main question, what I would suggest is to find a website (google combinations of aircraft/airplane ownership/operating costs) or other source that can help you calculate the operating costs for the Six. Use that as a basis and tweak it to include any costs that are specific to you locality or other specific situations. Calculate the fixed costs - hangar, insurance, property taxes - things that you will pay whether or not the aircraft flys based on your best guess of how many hours the aircraft will fly.
Having said the above, please come back and tell us how it works out. I would like to do the same sort of thing - with a different airframe - but the informal responses I get so far from the insurance people that I know is that this would be considered commercial use, and therefore, commercial use insurance rates apply.
It's my understanding that insurance companies consider a group of 5 or more to be a club regardless of the ownership arrangement. If your club will own the airplane and then rent it out to members, doesn't that sound like a commercial operation? Then wouldn't you have to have 100 hour inspections and other things?
As a starting point on costs; our Arrow costs $500 per month in fixed costs, including the annual. Hourly costs are about $45 for gas plus anywhere from $15 to $25 in maintenance. I believe gas and maintenance would be higher for the Six. We find that maintenance varies wildly from year to year, so you either have to over estimate or be prepared for unplanned contributions.
Dan, I'm in a Cherokee Six club in Las Vegas and the owner charges $75/hr dry (we top off the fuel after our flight). Min hours is 3 per month. He also charges $70 for insurance and $5 for a GPS fee per month. So total is $300 per month for each of us 5 people in the club. Scheduling is done through an independent website (schedulemaster.com) and we just go by first come, first serve. I think the club pricing is very fair. The Six is a great airplane! (1966 w/ IFR,tip tanks,autopilot,G430/530,speed mods). I often fly friends and family over the grand canyon to share costs.
We have a six with three partners. We charge each other 140/mo for hanger, insurance, prop tax, and the inspection portion of the annual. Then we pay 40/hr dry, split between a maintenance fund and an overhaul fund. This has worked pretty well as long as people fly enough. When flying slows down, so does the incoem for the maint funds.
Hello,
Both Everett and Ken G made some good points.
Just a reference - I am in a 4 pilot partnership
of a Piper Arrow II.
Try to stay to 4 or less in the group..insurance is
better. 5+ becomes a flying group...messy.
We pay $200 fixed cost each person at end of month.
$20/hr flown for the month....put into plane kitty/account.
Pay your own fuel....filled when finished for the day.
we pay 275 month hanger
we pay 1884 year insurance
we flew 120 hours last year.
we each have a "week" same each month, that the plane is
ours...other days you only have to make 1 phone call to see
if the plane is available.....
Has worked great for the last 4 years.
Good luck...partnerships also add frienship, resources,
ideas etc....I enjoy being part of one, yet the plane
still feels like I own it alone..
I am a 300 hr instrument rated pilot. I'm an aeronautical engineer and sell jets for living, so airplanes are what I'm closes to day in and day out. First - I'm wondering how much of a transition is it going from say, a C182 or C172 to the Cherokee Six? How many hours would you say provides for a comfortable transition?
Second - I am coming into Las Vegas to meet some old college friends. They would like me to fly them to Grand Canyon. I have 182 lined up but there are six of us. Do you know of anyone who would (a) let me rent the Cherokee Six with instructor for adequate number of hours to be signed off, (b) allow me to rent their Cherokee Six for one day trip to Grand Canyon?
Unless you have some time in a six, the insurance probably wont cover you. I went from a 172 to a 6, and in 10-15 hours i felt a lot better than the first hour!
