It's been three years of shopping but I've finally come down to (2) choices. (1) a 1968 PA28R-180 or a (2) 1980 Archer II. Both have newly remanufactured Engins with less than 250 hours, similarly equipped. Both are cupcakes, well done and in superb condition. Other than age and hours the PA28R over 6500 snf the Archer II 2250 seem very close. It's a buyers market so going in prices are within 5k. Besides the age difference the PA28R did have one gear up landing and has completely refurbished gea, doors and lower panel work. I am a 4000 hr, multiengine, std rated instrument, Complex and HP driver. I plan to use this aircraft to tvl and commute distances not greater than 600 miles. What are the obvious issues I am missing and how degrading is the one gear up issue with the PA28R. Load seems close on both? Looking for some steering from someone who has had a similar decision to make. This is my initial foray into ownership.
I own a 68 Arrow 180 and really like it. I previously owned a 68 Cherokee 180 and liked it too, but not quite enough speed for the long X-C's. The Arrow fits my 400 mile missions quite well. The big differance other than the speed is the economy in gallons per nautical mile. It beats the 180 because it folds the gear, has a contant speed prop, and is fuel injected. I have gotten an average of 9gph at 7500 and 135 knots indicated airspeed. Not bad, and more efficient.
Yeah, it is going to come right down to greater speed (maybe 25 knots or so) vs. cheaper to operate, insure, and maintain. There is a bit difference in landing characteristics due to the different wings, some swear by one or the other (or swear at...). Also unless the Arrow's avionics have been upgraded, the Archer may be a bit better in that department. Both very similar planes.
Mike: Comments spot on. Xtra speed is an asset since my mission task falls in the same arena. Economy at cruise and climb are both an advantage in the Arrow. Insurance quote was a wash nearly dead even. What's your avg annual costing? Better framed, how many more hours for the Drop Check on the gear and linkages ? Yes there needs to be a GPS uprade to the panel but the rest is quite functional and IFR Cert.
Nice ride you've got, I like the panel. OBTW I grew up in OH, Middletown, Butler Co. Thanks for the input....mps
Rob, Good gouge. I just left AOPA doing a flight plan. I'll spend some time there and you've made a great point. There should be some composite info on maintenance costs and some good aggregate numbers avaiable....:-) mps
I can't speak for other Arrow owners but my cross country flights with a 71 Arrow 180 do average at 140 to 142 kts true according to flight time over a longer distance and I do flight plan for 140 corrected for forecast winds. I typically fly at 7500 and 8500 asl weather permitting, leave the manifold pressure at max possible and set mixture for about 50 LOP, prop set at 2400, usually two persons on board with some baggage. I have heard that the longer wing Arrows are a bit slower but have not seen proof of that and somehow doubt it since they also have the 200 hp engine.
I have 200 hours in a 1969 180 Arrow and used it for extensive cross-country flights. Never had any problem cruising at 140 knots...of course it was new then, but if one has been maintained well, it should have no problem doing 135 knots at optimum altitude, IMHO. Only issue I ever had with the Arrow was "don't ever cruise with the gear down." I remember having the gear out on one trip approaching the airport, and it took 2500 RPM and 25" MP just to hold altitude at about 3000'DA. The gear is a real "drag."
I fly a Cherokee 140/160 now and go on long trips with it as well, but am not as concerned with going fast. With mods, I see 112-115 knots at 65% at altitude.
but my cross country flights with a 71 Arrow 180 do average at 140 to 142 kts true
Never had any problem cruising at 140 knots...
Yes, it's well documented that the Pipers owned by the folks on this board always meet or exceed published performance specifications... Worth mention that these are the only aircraft in the world that do such. Get real.
