Hey guys-
I am new to Piper and new to this Forum. I have just upgraded from an older Cessna 310D to a 2001 Turbo Saratoga and I am loving it so far!! The Saratoga is set up very nice with Garmin 530-430 combo, S-Tec Autopilot, Co-pilot inst. and the VG kit. I have a couple of questions for the forum since this is my first piper and I have only put about 8 hours on it so far.
I have been running at full power on climb, and 30"mp and 2300rpm at cruise,..is that what you would recomemd for normal cruise?
At cruise is showing about 1600-1620 TIT temps, 18.5gal p/hr, and just over 400deg cyl head temp at FL125 the POH says not to exceed 1650TIT and 425cyl temp. Is this to close? this may be a stupid question but is this ROP or LOP and how much?
The POH recomends a 90kt final approach speed (unless short field) and full flaps...is this what most of you are doing? any other tips to perfect the landings? (It lands quit different than my 310)
looking at the weight and ballance with only 2 people up front and full fuel it is forward of the cg envelope. are you guys putting some weight in the back? any other tips on loading?
there is about a 10deg heading variance between the 530 and the 430. any one had this prob? I am going to have my avionics guy check it out.
any other tips or advice that in running, maintaing, loading, performance mods, performance settings, etc. on this bird would be greatly appreaciated! I am flying out of Salt Lake Utah about 4500' and most of the time at gross.
I am very impressed with this plane so far and look forward to putting some serios hours in it over the next few years.
thanks in advance for your imput and advice!!
Cory
Cory,
I fly a Arrow so I'm not sure about the flight characteristics of your Toga but it seems that you should be able to cruise lower than 30" MP. Do you have an Intercooler? I have had numerous discussions w/ my A/P regarding temps. He is a staunch advocate of not exceeding 400 degrees. He says past 400, you turn into a Chef because you start cooking things. I usually keep the CHT's at 365 or so. Save your cylinders. He also hates that LOP thing. He strongly feels that these little engines aren't designed for the traditional LOP stuff. I always run ROP. Many will argue that but that is advise from the guy who makes my plane safe to fly. If you have an intercooler, you should be able to drop 1"MP for every 6 degrees of cooling. Save fuel! Enjoy your Toga...they are nice birds. Our FBO has one and they fly it over gross all the time.
Cory,
I fly a 1979 Turbo Lance. Is a little bit older, but seems to have the same problem. Without weight in the rear baggage compartment, a perfect landing is a gamble, especially on short fields, if you fly alone or with only one pax on the front seat. My solution is, a 5 gallon fuel can filled with fine sand - gives about 50 pounds weight and no problems even in the cold season. When I fly without persons on the back seat, I place this can in the rear baggage compartment. The result is impressive.
Full Power/full Rich/Max RPM on takeoff until 1000ft AGL, then I bring the MP down to 32. 38Mp is stressful on the engine. If the plane is sluggish in the climb, you forgot to bring up the wheels. Climb rate is very dependent on the load, usually between 700 - 1000 fpm.
During a normal climb, 30-32 MP works, but go to full rich to keep engine cool.
Cruise is up to you. I tend to keep my RPM high, 2400-2500, and vary the MP from 38-32, depending on how fast I want to go. Don't forget to periodically check mixture to account for speed change, altitude change, temp change, etc.
If you go by the manual, and at that fuel consumption rate, you are ROP. Keep the CHT's under 400. Due to the air cooling design, cyl #2 will always be the hottest at cruise. To find out how much ROP you are, you will need to perform a leaning procedure. Take my word for it after a lot of testing, much easier to simply enrichen until #2 cyl CHT just under 400. Even lower is better, but this can be a challenge at high altitudes (10,000+) on hot Summer days. You will have to burn more fuel or slow down.
I sometimes fly LOP, but this is after I had GAMI's installed and calibrate, paid for extra training, and installed an EDF-700 engine monitor.
For landing, I typically drop down my gears early (speed brakes), and settle in at 120kts, -500fpm. First stage gets you to 110, second about 100, third about 90. I like to cross the runway edge at 80, then gradually cut power during final descent. Touch down around 65, I think.
Once you get the hang of it you will appreciate how well it lands in gusty and crosswind conditions.
Once landed, turn off the fuel pump and lean the mixture to prevent plug fouling, this is especially important at high altitude airports as once the RPM's drop the turbo drops off and your plane realizes it is no longer at sea level!
Jonsondelmar: I see that you went through a lot of research and expense in order to go LOP with your PA 32R-301T. I appreciate your efforts and sharing the results with us. I see that you now sometimes go LOP after all of your investigation. Is there a reason why you are not always flying LOP? Is it worth the expense and effort put in to go LOP?
LOP is slow. About 150kts TAS at typical cruise altitude (10,000 - 12,000). Compared to 175kts at ROP 32 MP. But for long trips it pays off if I do not have to make a fuel stop.
I will usually switch to LOP during descents. This will clean out the deposits. Switch back to ROP on final.
Sometime I just want to go fast, especially if I have a strong headwind.
Either way, the expense of putting in and using an engine temp monitor is a worthwhile investment, whether you fly LOP or ROP.
I too just bought a used 1998 Saratoga II TC and found there is no suitable place on the panel for a JPI700 EDM. Where are guys putting these? My shop said the only place is between the O2 gauge and the Gear lights which is not in the normal scan of course.
I run 34/2400 in climb. I run 30/2300 in cruise. I run temps around 1575, and only worry about CHTs in the climb. Mixture will have very little affect on CHT in this aircraft. It is more a function of speed and angle of attack. Hence, climb is when this aircraft tends to exceed CHT limits. I approach and land with 25 degrees of flaps, approach around 90kts.
