Edited 5 November 2009 to reflect new number of partners sought...
Now One or hopefully Two Cherokee 160B Capital Shares For Sale (for a total of three shares) - Well, fellow forumites...whatever the reason - perhaps the perception that my initial idea of ten affordable shares would mean too little opportunity to fly (it likely wouldn't), or that a lot of owners would mean personality conflicts and hassles (it might), or that I have really, really bad internet breath (you tell me)...I'm now in the position of seeking a more traditional co-ownership arrangement. I would like to have two partners along with me - and if one prospective partner wanted to keep things as simple and hassle-free as possible I'd happily go with one partner. I had a heart surgeon interested in just the two of us and it would have been great - but his hospital went bankrupt. Guess it's tough all over right now economically. The bottom line is if you're living convenient to I69 - Clermont County Airport, Ohio, and the home of Sporty's - and you think you'd like to jointly own an aircraft - contact me for details. It's a sweet set-up at I69 and the plane is sweet too. The specifics;
N5129W is a four seat, IFR GPS certified (Garmin 300XL), 1961 Piper Cherokee 160B, serial #28-156, based in Hangar A-4 at Clermont County Airport, Ohio (I69). Mostly white, with lots of sky blue and gray accents. Extensively modernized and Low TT and Low engine time SMOH. The plane is really nice for local flying - low fuel burn, low maintenance costs, great handling and a proven safe plane - and it has good climb performance with the 160 HP engine and the PowerFlow Exhaust. It's also a good cross-country platform with the ability to file and fly IFR.
I'm not flying the plane as much as I thought I would and simply don't want to carry all fixed and maintenance costs myself. I've done my best to write a detailed LLC Governing Agreement that should result in ease of equitable access, preclude disputes and have us all merrily taking off on the same safety is paramount/flying is great fun page. We will make major financial and operational decisions together.
No damage history, never used as a primary trainer, all logs and records, all AD's complied with, spent all but the last two years in the dry climate of Arizona and been hangared since I brought her back to Ohio. The plane went through her second annual with me as owner in July (Select Air at I69 is my maintenance shop) and passed with flying colors.
Within the next two weeks I'm having the plane professionally appraised. Shares won't be more than $15,000 each even if the plane appraises for more than $45,000 (my VREF best guess in April) and might be less as this market has resulted in declining prices. AS the owners on this forum know it usually isn't the purchase price that drains our wallets, but rather the carrying costs of insuring, hangaring and maintaining a plane and the operating cost of flying it that add up. Sharing the carrying costs just makes financial sense.
Please email me at dirkv@fuse.net and I'll send you my Cherokee 160 Flyer Prospective Member Fact Sheet. Has pictures and much more detail. If that interests you I'll send you the Governing Agreement for your perusal.
Fly safe - and thanks for reading my amended offer!
Dirk
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2009 12:15PM by Dirk.
I own my own PA-28 and live in TX, so I'm not a prospect for you, but I'd like to see your fact sheet and governing agreement if you are willing to share them. Please email to me by clicking on my ID.
Added a post to bring the post back to the top. Edited to reflect reduced cost and other minor changes in first message. Root message is the latest information.
Giving $2000 credit for the Powerflo - Vref shows $29,065 figured at 3000TT and 250 SMOH.
1961 - PIPER CHEROKEE PA28 150/160
$29,065.38 (as configured)
Trade-in value will be considerably less
due to dealer marketing costs, margins and inventory expenses.
Price assumes complete logs, no damage, and all inspections complied.
VREF is irrelevant. The market is way too complicated and subjective for a "blue book" to be accurate. The only relevant price is the one that all parties privy to the transaction agree upon.
I'm away from home right now, but I plan to look at the VREF numbers again when I get home. VREF is like a plan - something from which to deviate *grin*. In my estimate I got the base price and then I added up all the parts and labor charges for the many upgrades made by the previous owner (and a few I've made) since 2003, and then took 50% of that and added it to the base value. The total came to $45,000.
Arbitrary? Sure. Why not take 60% of the upgrade value? Why not 30%? Maybe the appraiser will tell me there is an accepted formula. Without adding value for the many relatively recent upgrades a perfectly flyable airplane with a long life ahead of it becomes less valuable than a mid-value automobile. So we'll see.
I appreciate the comments and I'll post what the appraiser says the plane is worth here. He did comment he thought the airplane market would rally and that if I waited a year it would be worth more.
It's really more about cash flow than value. But if I price the airplane artifically low then that would incentivize someone to buy in and then try and sell out high to make a little money. I'm hoping to find someone like myself who wants to own their shares for a long time.
We can hope and dream, and try and dismiss Vref, but the market is speaking.
If all you are looking for is just costs, you should just start a flying club as opposed to a partnership. Or creatively structure the partnership to avoid a "windfall profit" from one of the partners. Just don't call it a flying club when you get insurance.
I'm also not sure of the logic advertising here. Your parties of interest are going to be in a 30 mile radius. Ads on every airport bulletin board as well as a personal conversation with every active CFI (students will be the big draw here) seems like it might net some interest.
Bottom line, the aircraft market is in the pits. And anyone that thinks an aircraft is an "investment" might want to read Rich Dad/Poor Dad. You've identified the Achilles heal in this logic, ongoing maintenance, structure your partnership to address this. Maybe a poison pill/minimum time of partnership to discourage speculators.
