I didn't want to hijack the PPL thread, but I have somewhat similar questions about training. I know I'm looking ahead, but . . .
Some background:
I've only got about 25 hours as a student pilot. I'm on the verge of my solo, and at about 20 hours my CFI got an airline job (happy for him - sad for me). This set me back a bit as the new instructor had to get checked out in a Warrior (he had only flown Cessnas - I actually think I'm more comfortable in a Warrior than he is).
He has wanted me to show him that I can do ground reference maneuvers, stalls, landings, cross wind landings, etc. and we've done some uncontrolled airport landings, or I think I'd have soloed already.
ANYWAYS - to my question(s) looking ahead (how far ahead is the big question):
How many hours is a good number of hours as PIC VFR before looking to get an IFR rating?
How many hours is a good number of hours as PIC of a Warrior before looking to get a complex rating?
I'd really like to own my own plane, sooner rather than later. How many hours is a good number of hours as a PIC before I "graduate" to a complex plane?
When looking for a plane, should I get a Warrior, fly it for "X" number of hours, then look to move to an Arrow? or should I jump to an Arrow.
Ya I know I need to build the fence before I let the horses out of the barn, but I LOVE TO FLY, and want my progression to be the right way.
I think you should jump right in and get your IFR ticket, since a lot of common knowledge will still be fresh in your head, as well as your complex/high performance endorsement. I would continue to rent through the process, so you can experience different types of airplanes, and then buy later, once you've identified your mission requirements and aquired a preference for one type of airplane or another.
I am going to respectfully disagree with Sac Arrow. I got my PPL in October, and will be starting my IFR training soon. I don't feel that I was in any way shape or form ready for IFR training when I got my PPL - however, 60-some hours later, including a good bit of real world x-country, I feel very confident in my abilities as far as flying the airplane - and that's surely got to help when dealing with all the procedures and communications required for IFR conditions.
I suppose that you could easilly just go straight through and be IFR Certified, but will you be anything more than a pattern jockey who can fly in the clouds? That's the question you have to ask yourself... but I'd say that the chances are slim that you'll encounter much in terms of the real world that way. Going straight from your first flight to an IFR ticket seems like a life sentence to me.
There's no substitute for experience - and no remedy for arrogance.
As far as ownership, I bought my Warrior when I had 8 hours of flight time when I bought mine, and I intend to keep it through my Instrument ticket and a bit beyond. From talking to the insurance companies, insurance breaks on a retract are quite good at 250 hours TT and an IFR ticket, so I'm waiting till then (it's not that far, really, once you start flying outside the pattern!). And besides, with the Warrior, flights take a bit longer, so you're building more time! As a student pilot, you may have a hard time getting someone to insure you on a retract (or so I am told).
Also, I definitely agree with Sac Arrow on the part about figuring out what your mission is. IMHO - the Warrior and the Arrow don't entirely share the same profile as far as the flight mission. The Archer would be a better comparison if you're intending to keep something...
The answer to each of these questions is going to be different with each individual. I have had student pilots purchase everything from Cherokee 140’s to Cessna 210’s as their first plane. I didn’t recommend the 210, but when someone has his heart set on something it’s hard to change his mind.
There is no reason you can’t work on your instrument rating immediately after receiving your private pilot’s license (check FAR 61.65 for requirements). However, there is something to be said about just going out and flying for fun after receiving your private pilot’s license instead of working towards that next rating immediately. You will know when it’s the right time for you to start working on the instrument rating.
You need to ask a lot of questions before purchasing your first plane. Such as, what are the insurance requirements needed to fly the airplane you wish to purchase? These requirements will help you decide which aircraft to purchase (whether you want them to or not). My two cents would be to keep flying a fixed gear (with the number of hours you have) before moving on to a complex aircraft. Once you have flown both, decide which is best for your needs.
In your case, a good time to add the complex endorsement may be after receiving you private pilot’s license. Then, work on your instrument rating in a complex aircraft. This way you could kill two birds with one stone. One would be working on your instrument rating and the second would be working towards the insurance requirements that are needed to own a complex aircraft.
Good luck with all of these decisions.
James
ATP, CFI, CFII, MEI
"We can lift ourselves out of ignorance, we can find ourselves as creatures of excellence and intelligence and skill. We can be free! We can learn to fly!" Richard Bach, Jonathan Livingston Seagull, 1970
One thing that helped me a lot was flying right seat with IFR rated pilots flying on an IFR flight plan. I got to be very comfortable with the communications and procedures before taking on the stress of actually doing it myself. If you ever have that opportunity I'd recommend you take advantage of it.
Thanks for the replys. It looks like the best thing for me to do is:
1) Worry about getting my PPL first and foremost
2) Find out the costs of owning a plane (Warrior)
3) Find someone with IFR rating and go fly with them (or have them fly with me)
I'm still real excited about getting my training completed (stupid FAA practice written tests). I think for me, once I get my certification, I'll relax, enjoy it for a while before I jump into IFR. I really enjoy the Warrior, but then that is all I know at this point.
Anyone know of a good IFR rated Warrior for sale ;-)
All this advice is good. Get some real world and cross-country experience before going into your IFR training. It helps you understand things better, but what no one else has mentioned is that IFR training is pretty freakin' BORING! After you get used to attitude instrument flying and doing approaches, you're spending a lot of time under the hood (or if you're lucky, in real IMC) just building up the time you need to take the exam.
I found myself longing for those special moments when my CFII would let me actually look at the ground!
As to ownership, I would just make sure you know what your mission is. There's no real reason to move up to complex right away unless your mission or business needs require more speed. Everything about a complex plane will cost more: purchase price, insurance, maintenance, etc. I'm still happy as a clam tooling around in my Warrior, but my flying is all personal so I've decided to resist the move to an Arrow or Mooney for now.
