http://forums.piperowner.org/list/23 EN Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:10:01 -0500 Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:10:01 -0500 Cherokee Family Phorum 5.1.25 60 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143715/143728#msg-143728 David Cooper
By the way, as promised, here's my first question. (I think you actually raised this a couple of years ago, but I don't recall seeing a conclusive answer.):

The weight and balance graph for my particular S/N in the Type Certificate Data Sheet differs significantly from the weight and balance graph in my Airplane Flight Manual. Is there a definitive answer on which graph trumps? (And, why would Piper allow this discrepancy to stand for decades?)]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143715/143728#msg-143728 Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:10:01 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143715/143721#msg-143721 JimC
BTW, you'll find that your yoke universals don't have the 'inspection' holes, which makes checking the Service Bulletin shaft imbedment tolerance a bit more of a pain than for later models (my 1966 doesn't have them either).
JimC]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143715/143721#msg-143721 Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:16:48 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143715/143715#msg-143715 David Cooper
I just wanted to say thanks for all the good advice I received in the previous thread and also provide fair warning that you'll probably see me post a flood of newbie questions in the next few weeks. I hope I don't make a pest of myself. I've already learned a great deal lurking in the background, and I promise to make use of the Search function before posting. Oh, and I'll be joining POS, too.]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143715/143715#msg-143715 Tue, 16 Mar 2010 11:09:01 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143476/143521#msg-143521 ghendr
Six years ago, I installed Aerospace Logic gauges in my Cherokee. They have worked flawlessly and I can highly recommend them. They are 2" gauges, with multiple functions on each gauge, with color analog displays and also a switchable digital display. One gauge has oil pressure and oil temperature, and the fuel pressure gauge also has a voltmeter and an ammeter. A separate gauge has both fuel quantities on it. No more oil or fuel lines in the cabin!

you can check them out at www.aerospacelogic.com, and you can buy them from Aircraft Spruce.

Gary]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143476/143521#msg-143521 Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:51:27 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143476/143509#msg-143509 PilotKris
It should be relatively simple to get field approval for the installation of electronic pressure gauges as long as the gauges are TSO'd and have the proper limit markings (green, yellow and red arcs).

There are a number of all in one units that are STC'd as primary replacement (JPI, E.I.) but they are expensive.

Fuel injected engines have even higher pressure fuel lines going to the "fuel flow" gauge (which is really a fuel pressure gauge referenced to "deck" pressure) It is possible to replace it with an electronic FF/totalizer (with the proper STC).

PilotKris]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143476/143509#msg-143509 Fri, 12 Mar 2010 11:05:08 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143476/143486#msg-143486 Dave Matlock Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143476/143486#msg-143486 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:32:58 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143476/143476#msg-143476 robertcollins My fuel pressure gauge fluctuates quite a bit due to an air bubble in the system. I realise I have to bleed the system in order to rectify the problem. The real issue is the fact we have actual fuel flowing to that gauge which is located in the cabin. I wonder what would happen if the gauge or the fuel line going to the gauge broke.....
The same situation exists for the oil pressure gauge which receives oil through an oil line.
The new aircrafts do not have oil or fuel pressurizing those pressure gauges anymore...
Does anyone know of a mod to have electric gauges in the cabin to tell us about the condition of the oil and fuel pressure?

Thanks

Robert Collins]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143476/143476#msg-143476 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:19:39 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143457#msg-143457 CaptKirk
When a mechanic says 1-2 hours, then it should be 1-2 hours. Not 4-5 without any real justification. This is about honesty and integrity. In my opinion, if someone says 1-2 hours and bills for 5.5 hours, that is dishonest and that just pisses me off.

As for insulting a mechanic by bringing my own parts...You can't have it both ways. Searching for part numbers, ordering, receiving and otherwise handling parts is time consuming grunt work. Besides, I do this with parts that shops don't stock or with parts that I personally stock (e.g. oil filters and spark plugs).

When I've done it your way, I have had occasions where the shop ordered the wrong part, and my airplane sat in his shop for another couple of days waiting on the right part (e.g. my alternator bracket was a recent example). Further, I have not had a problem with any shop when I arrive with parts in hand. Most shops seems quite happy to do have the work. One shop charged me $25 for bringing my own oil to an oil change and then charged me another $25 for oil additive I didn't need since I used Exxon Elite - now that's insulting to me! Needless to say, I don't do business there anymore.

Finally, it seems to me that the owner assisted annual would be more of an insult than someone bringing their own parts. Most of us keep extra spark plugs on hand...Why should I pay an extra $25-$35 for a shop plug when I have one sitting in my baggage compartment?

To me this is just common sense and good business. Aviation shops don't get a pass on good, honest, quality service just because their feelings might be hurt.

Kirk out.]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143457#msg-143457 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:26:20 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143343/143434#msg-143434 Dave Matlock Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143343/143434#msg-143434 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:01:27 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143363/143427#msg-143427 Dave Matlock Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143363/143427#msg-143427 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:43:31 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143363/143412#msg-143412 PilotKris
I routinely fly to Mexico where fuel stops are few and far between. To make sure I've can use all of fuel on board, I run each tank till the engine quits (or, if I'm paying close enough attention, the fuel pressure drops). All airplanes have a certain amount of fuel that can only be used in straight and level flight and sucking each tank dry while in cruise will assure that the last remaining fuel is where it can be used (all in the last tank).

Your passengers might be a little unnerved by the sound of silence but the carburetored O-540-B4B5 will fire right up once you restore the fuel flow.

AOPA has an article this month where they mention this technique.

I also start with the tips. This is mostly because I have partners in the plane and the agreement is to return the plane with the mains full. I also have a fuel flow/totalizer so I use fuel used, not time to switch tanks.

I burn 5 gal. from the left tip
10 gal from the right tip
empty the left tip
empty the right tip.
10 gal from the left main
10 gal from the right main
10 gal from the left main
empty the right main

All remaining fuel in the aircraft (aprox 5 gal.) will be in the left main. I will use that tank for landing.

This also assures that you never have more than a 7 gal. imbalance in the tips or 10 gal. in the mains.

PilotKris]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143363/143412#msg-143412 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:03:30 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143343/143389#msg-143389 Tom Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143343/143389#msg-143389 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 05:19:21 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143363/143388#msg-143388 Gordon
I guess I'll follow the AFM.]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143363/143388#msg-143388 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 05:16:07 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143384#msg-143384 magman
Of course you can always "find" the o-ring on the floor or in the box AFTER the job is done.

Not quite as much fun as with a cylinder base seal!

Particularly a 6 banger.

THey WILL want to get even though!]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143384#msg-143384 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:57:06 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143343/143383#msg-143383 magman
really about 32 lb/in which is close to what the Piper Kit states.

Seems much higher.

No problem inserting the new ones.

This is the second aircraft that we're changing the bolts on & only Left MLG.

First 1/2 of the Piper Kit went on an Archer 2; also Left MLG.

That's incredible that you can change these w/o a tank pull.

All 8?

Didn't change the middle 2.

Maybe this could be done by "Katherine" ; a teen that always done the difficult access jobs.]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143343/143383#msg-143383 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 01:49:39 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143363/143381#msg-143381 Dave Matlock I think I saw your post over on the PA28B site also. I'm just guessing but I believe Piper has you drain the mains first to maintain a more favorable wing loading. A lot of guys tend to switch tanks every 30 minutes but I don't watch the clock myself and just switch when I start noticing an imbalance. I keep 100LL in the tips for T/O and landing and a blend of primarily MoGas and a little 100LL in the mains for cruise so the Piper proceedure isn't quite what I do, but it's close.]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143363/143381#msg-143381 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 23:18:10 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143368#msg-143368 Tom Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143368#msg-143368 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:59:36 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143343/143367#msg-143367 Tom Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143343/143367#msg-143367 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:57:32 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143363/143363#msg-143363 Gordon
Thanks, Gordon]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143363/143363#msg-143363 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:57:16 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143343/143362#msg-143362 PilotKris
Check for galling and fretting.

Are you ordering the nuts/bolt off of the IPC using Piper or AN part numbers?

There might be corrosion or contamination (paint) of the holes making insertion difficult and the holes might need to be cleaned up. A ream turned by hand should be all that is necessary.

PilotKris]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143343/143362#msg-143362 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:23:49 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143343/143343#msg-143343 magman
Gear to the spar to be loose.

Any input whether this is a result of

1. Nut loosening

2. Bolt stretching

3. Other?

It appears most stresses would be in shear.

The replacement procedure STARTS with tank removal.

Obviously; if left unattended the Spar Attach Holes will wear & then

it's REALLY BIG BUCK$$.


The new (Piper) bolts have a VERY high "Friction Torque".

May actually be HIGHER than the Torque Spec.

The new nuts differ from the original.

Will get p/n's & readings later today.

Anyone else see this before?

Comments?]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143343/143343#msg-143343 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:26:59 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143337#msg-143337 Dave Matlock
If your skin ain't leak'n, it must need more tweak'n?]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143337#msg-143337 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 07:50:53 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143335#msg-143335 Tom Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143335#msg-143335 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 05:10:26 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143329/143329#msg-143329 Kevin Bubar Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/143329/143329#msg-143329 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 23:13:02 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143327#msg-143327 Dave Matlock Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143327#msg-143327 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 22:17:09 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143305#msg-143305 28161 -------------------------------------------------------
> Capt Kirk
> I think you should consider yourself lucky that
> any shop in the world deals with you. I have
> noticed that you think you know better than any
> mechanic out there as far as installation time.
> You show a complete lack of understanding as to
> the responsiblity of a mechanic in an
> installation.
>
> I am also disturbed by the fact that you show up
> with your own parts. This is the ultimate insult
> to most shops.
>
> You should really hug the mechanic that you have
> found that deals with you. He is a hero.


I'm sorry, but CaptKirk procliamed ME the "Mr.Know-it-all" on these forums for disagreeing with him about PA 28 differences and I'd like to keep my status, if possible.

:)]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143305#msg-143305 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:18:57 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/97212/143295#msg-143295 Jim Wells
Enjoy.]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/97212/143295#msg-143295 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 14:02:05 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143268#msg-143268 GT I think you should consider yourself lucky that any shop in the world deals with you. I have noticed that you think you know better than any mechanic out there as far as installation time. You show a complete lack of understanding as to the responsiblity of a mechanic in an installation.

I am also disturbed by the fact that you show up with your own parts. This is the ultimate insult to most shops.

You should really hug the mechanic that you have found that deals with you. He is a hero.]]> Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/140580/143268#msg-143268 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 08:24:08 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/97212/143258#msg-143258 Ken Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/97212/143258#msg-143258 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 00:40:42 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/142988/143254#msg-143254 CaptKirk Cherokee Family http://forums.piperowner.org/read/23/142988/143254#msg-143254 Sun, 07 Mar 2010 21:33:15 -0600