http://forums.piperowner.org/list/4 EN Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:04:45 -0600 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:04:45 -0600 Maintenance Phorum 5.1.25 60 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143460/143463#msg-143463 magman
Some of the new type do utilize a shim as part of the install.

The place to start would be ( as always) with the Starter Mfg
Install & Servicing instructions.


If it does NOT DISENGAGE you will NOT have the Starter long.

With the difference in Pinion & Ring Gear sizes that
poor little guy is doing about ninety -nine gajillion RPM.

It just flies apart!]]> Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143460/143463#msg-143463 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:04:45 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143460/143460#msg-143460 Mark--Arrow Flyer
Have a question about a Magnaflite, lightweight starter.
Been on the Piper Arrow for about 5 years. I'm now on my third starter drive (EBB-75A which costs $100+). It keeps wearing the teeth off the drive from the end closest to the ring gear and progressively wears deeper into the drive gears. It is almost "perfect" wear, like it is being filed down everytime I start (btw I'm only putting about 50-100hrs on each before they are ruined). Now I'm starting to see a couple spots on the ring gear teeth that are getting very chewed up (the typical starting points for starter engagement). Ugh! Funny thing is that it starts perfectly although a couple of times people have said it sounds weird after starting if you're outside the airplane like the starter gear is stuck and not disengaging.

I'm starting to think the starter gear is too tight to the ring gear and the teeth are getting stuck together and not properly disengaging after the engine fires up. I'm considering using a thin shim between the engine and starter when bolting the starter on to open up a bit more gear clearance (kinda like you used to have to do on car starters years ago).

Has anyone else done this or had this type of problem???]]> Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143460/143460#msg-143460 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 07:36:24 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/116582/143458#msg-143458 Ron J Pearce Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/116582/143458#msg-143458 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 05:32:01 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143453#msg-143453 PilotPete Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143453#msg-143453 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:49:15 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143156/143450#msg-143450 sgansky Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143156/143450#msg-143450 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:05:49 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143442#msg-143442 dakota bob Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143442#msg-143442 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:10:30 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/116582/143425#msg-143425 JimC JimC]]> Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/116582/143425#msg-143425 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:53:44 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143000/143416#msg-143416 Rick T.
The biggest difference for me was the insurance cost. Mine is $1,400/yr vs $3,000/yr for a similar equip'd Lance.

Go and do the spread sheet....unless you do really long trips regularly the +15 extra knots doesn't amount to much for the purchase price premium.]]> Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143000/143416#msg-143416 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:30:03 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/116582/143407#msg-143407 Ron J Pearce Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/116582/143407#msg-143407 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:01:31 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143398#msg-143398 JimC JimC]]> Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143398#msg-143398 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 08:06:08 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143000/143397#msg-143397 JoeB
Obviously the maintenance issues are diffent for the gear itself. With the Lance you can have a variety of mechanical issues. With the fixed gear you'll either be repairing cracked wheel pants or leaving them off (and losing another 5 knots.) Couple of years ago on Cherokee Chat we had a thread about what people were spending for maintenance on their retractable gear. I compared that to my 12-year cost of repairs to wheel pants (both in a Dakota and in a Saratoga) and found that I was actually paying more for wheel pants than the average maintenance for retractable gear. Of course I represent a scientific sample of one, so don't take this too far. But I think it is safe to conclude that you're not going to save a ton of money by going fixed gear unless you take the speed hit and leave the wheel pants off.

Regards,
Joe]]> Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143000/143397#msg-143397 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 08:04:59 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143000/143375#msg-143375 kansarasc Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143000/143375#msg-143375 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 20:15:12 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143238/143373#msg-143373 kansarasc Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143238/143373#msg-143373 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 20:02:49 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143156/143350#msg-143350 Jim M
Good luck.
Jim M]]> Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143156/143350#msg-143350 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 11:30:57 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143156/143323#msg-143323 TC
TC]]> Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143156/143323#msg-143323 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:33:51 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/142993/143312#msg-143312 Chris -------------------------------------------------------
> I normally install these valves dry. The valves
> are made of brass with a pipe thread and leaks are
> very rare. I would NOT advise using teflon tape as
> this can plug screens and orifices. If lubricant
> must be used there is a product called Fuel Lube,
> it is approved and will not contaminate the fuel
> system.

Thanks Tom, I bought the valves and I will be installing them shortly, hopefully will be no leaks but if there is I will use the Fuel Lube that you recommended.]]> Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/142993/143312#msg-143312 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:05:01 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143238/143309#msg-143309 Tom Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143238/143309#msg-143309 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:50:31 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/142993/143307#msg-143307 Tom Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/142993/143307#msg-143307 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:38:51 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143302#msg-143302 Dave Matlock Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143302#msg-143302 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:08:21 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/142993/143287#msg-143287 Chris Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/142993/143287#msg-143287 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:19:40 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/142993/143284#msg-143284 N9999F Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/142993/143284#msg-143284 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:10:56 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143270#msg-143270 Dvae Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143270#msg-143270 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 08:34:44 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143238/143267#msg-143267 JoeB
Regards,
Joe]]> Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143238/143267#msg-143267 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 07:41:52 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143238/143264#msg-143264 adam
Magman, you asked about the other figures, this is how I worked out the budget for this, I tried to calculate a realistic cost per hour. Based on 100 hrs year, I have come up with appx 151.18. This does not include the payment or an engine reserve. It accounts for a 4500 annual and 1388 (quoted) for insurance, and hangar space; 16 gal/hr plus .5qt of oil per hour for an annual expense of $15118, or 1259 plus payment per month. I am interested to hear if anyone else has done any similar calculations and if so, how close to mine they are.


Thanks as always.


Adam]]> Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143238/143264#msg-143264 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 06:20:09 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143238/143260#msg-143260 jeroen1 After this I never spend more then 1000 euro on an annual. I do not count cylinder replacement, prop overhaul etc under the annual cost.
I just finished my 2010 annual, and this cost me 800 euro including oil and filter etc.
These are owner assisted annuals however, so I do the oil change, filter change, set up for the gear swing, remove the underside wing panels, remove the seats etc. Doing this simple work, could save you a lot of money, and you get to know your plane inside out.

Jeroen]]> Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143238/143260#msg-143260 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 02:11:00 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143238/143259#msg-143259 magman
Multiply that by labor rate in your area.

Oil , filter & PARTS & LABOR for REPAIRS are not included.

Make sure that your AD's are NOT in "Prego FormaT".

That would be a basket of "paper" and "it's in there!".

How did the other figures work out?]]> Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143238/143259#msg-143259 Mon, 08 Mar 2010 00:50:35 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143252#msg-143252 Dakota Bob Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143252#msg-143252 Sun, 07 Mar 2010 20:32:10 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143238/143251#msg-143251 PilotPete
You won't be far off planning on ~$4k.]]> Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143238/143251#msg-143251 Sun, 07 Mar 2010 20:23:28 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143249#msg-143249 PilotPete What you're describing should not cause pre-ignition. Not sure what the pinging sound is that you heard - could just be the sound of the cylinders cooling and contracting.

Pre-ignition is the premature (early) and somewhat uncontrolled combustion of the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder caused by an ignition source other than normal spark plug firing (like a red hot spark plug). It can cause excessive peak cylinder pressures because it happens at the wrong part of the power cycle (before TDC rather than after), and because it occurs quite suddenly.

Turning off the engine with the ignition instead of the mixture is not hard on the engine, it just means that there is a combustible fuel/air mixture in all the cylinders that could ignite as soon as there is spark (ie. if the prop gets turned and a mag is hot). So it's a safety issue more than anything.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. If you're not sure, ask your mechanic.]]> Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143249#msg-143249 Sun, 07 Mar 2010 20:20:04 -0600 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143248#msg-143248 Dakota Bob Maintenance http://forums.piperowner.org/read/4/143248/143248#msg-143248 Sun, 07 Mar 2010 20:00:56 -0600