http://forums.piperowner.org/list/8 EN Wed, 07 May 2008 14:48:27 -0500 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:48:27 -0500 Travel Phorum 5.1.25 60 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/94177/99909#msg-99909 Frank Norwitch
Frank.]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/94177/99909#msg-99909 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:48:27 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/94177/99904#msg-99904 CaptBill
Ditching your Cherokee Six is survivalble, but does take skill and preparation. There are three stages of survival, at least for me. I base this approach on my time in the US Navy training open ocean survival, my time in overwater flight and reviewing an Aerostar ditching by my partner. I'm not an expert. I don't provide products or consulting in this area, so I'm sure that there are others who can provide their insight as well.

Step 1: Flying the airplane to the water surface. My approach to this is to 1) align 90 degs to the wind. Don't fly into or with the wind unless you are certain that the water surface is glass smooth. Absolutely certain. Waves, even small waves become barriers that decelerate the airframe quickly upon impact. Contacting the water surface parallel to the waves helps a bit. You will all find that water that looks smooth from 1000 or more feet up can actually be 1' waves. Think of driving the nose of your plane in to a nearlly solid embankment 1' high. It will hurt. So plan on their being waves no matter what you see. My approach is to stall my plane to the surface. Reducing both forward and vertical motion to the lowest possible number. Not easy but you can train for it. Nose high will be my attitude obviously.

Step 2: Getting out of the airplane with survival gear. It is not easy. Not easy at all. After impact you are dazed, have some blunt impact trauma, gear in the cockpit is a mess, water is working very, very hard to join you in the cockpit and you have to unbelt yourself and maybe other and get out the door. Certainly open the door prior to impact. Plan on 10 seconds max to exit. You will have just about enough time to find your harness/belt release, actually open the door, grap one item of survival gear and get out. Really. If there are others in the plane, more time will be required. So prepare yourself: practice exiting. On the ramp actually unbuckle, open the door, reach to the back seat and grap your survival gear lanyard, and get out. Blindfold. With only one arm in use. Now with only one leg in use. Do it. I also suggest that you have but one container that you will put all your survival gear in and tie a lanyard with a float on the bitter end. I use a round/cylinder type ice cooler with a screw on top. I can't but my raft in there but I do put my portable nav/com, streamer, mirror, etc. I do tie my raft to the cooler. So I can grap that one thing or lanyard and exit, pulling the gear with me.

Step Three: Water survival. Now you are out, your PFD you were wearing inflates and you have your survival gear with you. The plane is gone below the waves. Think of the following: Shelter, water, food. If you have a raft, make it one with a cover. Shelter is first priority. You will need much less water and nurishment if you are protected from wind, water, sun and temperature extremes. Also take a drown proofing class - it will help you survive in the water if you don't have a functioning raft. And it is fun to do in a nice warm pool! One last thing. You just can't imagine how difficult it is to see a day glow yellow or orange raft in the open ocean. No matter what the height of eye of your rescuers, it is difficult. Even if you are in radio contact. Increase your visibility by using the three things that dramatically increase your visibility: dye, streamer and strobe. The dye should be used only when your rescuer is close and localizing your position. But the streamer - an orange 6-9' wide by 30-100' model - can be use full time. A strobe is an amazing thing at night. Works over significant distances. Low light and night is the time to use it and only when you know a rescuer or passing boat or low flying airplane is near.

I actually know pilots that have survived ditching. It's much more than luck. And you don't have to be involved with constant military training to be prepared. Just do a few simple things, get some gear and practice exiting.

By the way, I've flown over the Gulf, Pacific, Lake Michigan, etc in my small airplane(s). Concerned. Yes. Can the risk be managed. Absolutely.

Bill]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/94177/99904#msg-99904 Wed, 07 May 2008 13:05:26 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/99813/99813#msg-99813 Rich
Wanted to pass along a great place to fly to that is very unique. I have flown to many different places and found this resort destination to be especially nice.


A pilot's paradise...what a great place to fly into for the day, weekend or week. This island is a real gem with the airport directly next to the intra-costal waterway and only 1 mile from the ocean. My wife and I flew in for a weekend trip and had a fabulous time. You can stay at the historical Jekyll Island Club Hotel (1-800-535-9547) which was the private seasonal getaway for the likes of J.P. Morgan, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Pulitzer, etc. You can also fly in for just lunch, as the hotel will pick you up for the 1 mile trip or simply walk and enjoy the beautiful island area. The hotel offers murder-mystery weekends, Jazz Festivals, along with biking, golf,swimming,tennis,croquet,touring the historical district and just plain relaxing on the scenic porches that surround the Jekyll Island Club. If you want a perfect fly-in for your EAA or pilot group...this is the ideal venue for a few hours or all week. They even have a vehicle rental agency on the field that will rent you The Red Bug - small island type rental vehicles.

www.jekyllclub.com]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/99813/99813#msg-99813 Mon, 05 May 2008 19:38:00 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/94177/99742#msg-99742 JeffKing
Put it into a stall/mush and pancake it in for the least forward velocity? We are talking a fixed gear Cherokee 6, basically stalls the same as a 180. The idea here being to reduce the chances of flipping the plane.

I've been told the best life jackets to have are the inflatables, and only inflate it after egressing the aircraft. Any comments on this welcome.

I flew over lake Michigan once, "diagonally" once on the way to Oshkosh, and it sure is lonely. Be getting a raft this time.]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/94177/99742#msg-99742 Sun, 04 May 2008 19:29:39 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/56213/99725#msg-99725 houston21481 Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/56213/99725#msg-99725 Sun, 04 May 2008 10:31:57 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/94177/99723#msg-99723 Rich
Your odds of being hit by lightning (on the groud) are higher than having an engine-out situation.

Go and fly over water and enjoy flying and don't worry about it.]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/94177/99723#msg-99723 Sun, 04 May 2008 10:16:37 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/94177/99626#msg-99626 Dave
On one overwater trip in Oct the engine did start to run rough at the exact center of the lake. Ran rough for approximately one minute and thirty three seconds and then cleared up. Turned out to be valve problems and had to replace several jugs.

Does not take that much longer to go around Chicago.]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/94177/99626#msg-99626 Fri, 02 May 2008 10:11:22 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/94177/99332#msg-99332 Joel
What is the fss frequency?]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/94177/99332#msg-99332 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:17:02 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/94177/99150#msg-99150 Martin M
Martin]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/94177/99150#msg-99150 Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:56:01 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98249/99145#msg-99145 Martin M
Good luck...Martin]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98249/99145#msg-99145 Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:43:49 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98434/99129#msg-99129 MANDMFLY I LIVE KALISPELL MT. DON'T WORRY ABOUT FLYING INTO HERE IT IS A VERY LARGE VALLEY AND IS GREAT PLACE TO FLY. GPI WILL TREAT YOU RIGHT. I GUESS THE WEATHER CAN BE A BIT INTERESTING AT TIMES. THE MOUNTAINS JUST TO THE EAST ARE HIGH BUT THR VALLEY WILL ALLOW A LET DOWN FROM THE SOUTH THER IS NO PROBLEM. IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT OUR AREA JUST ASK I'D LOVE TO HELP]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98434/99129#msg-99129 Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:36:08 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98991/98991#msg-98991 brad
Just flew to columbia airport and did a little camping. It was great. The campground is one of the best I have been to. right off the 2400 ft grass strip where tail draggers come in for picnics and such. Scenery is beautiful camping is 8 bucks a nite. Free hot showers. The town is hurting right now so a lot of restaurants are closed but there is a great mexican place about a 3/4 mile walk into town. You could hike down to the lake but it would be a couple miles and down a long trail. Hope to see you all there soon. Someone should organize a cherokee fly in there sometime.]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98991/98991#msg-98991 Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:07:27 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98624/98634#msg-98634 Steve Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98624/98634#msg-98634 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:19:03 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98624/98624#msg-98624 Gary
When I arrived at the airport this morning, I found Marine-One parked about 60' in front of my airplane, which is in a T-hangar. As I entered the "people" gate to the ramp, I stopped and asked one of the marines there to go talk to the guard who was walking around Marine-One with some awesome-looking firepower (I wanted to be safe rather than sorry). I got a thumbs-up from the guard to enter the area and my airplane, and so began the pre-flight. Shortly thereafter, the pilots (or maybe techs) decided to do a run-up in Marine-One. The wind was already strong from the northwest, but Marine-One added to it. I held onto my hat and re-chocked the airplane to keep it from moving until they finished (a couple of minutes). Then I asked one of the marines to let the guard know I was ready to pull the airplane out of the hangar and got another thumbs-up. Soon I was on my way out of the area on a pre-activated (on the ground) VFR flight plan to Lancaster, Texas, (LNC), where they have a great price on 100LL and a nice little restaurant in the terminal building.

While the line-guys at Lancaster fueled my airplane, I got a snack and coffee to go. For the return trip, I filed IFR to ensure a smooth entry to the TFR. As I approached home base from the northeast, the traffic monitor (ATD-300) alerted traffic at 2 miles, 900' below. Northwest of the airport was a group of helicopters on their way to the ranch. It was a pretty sight. The tower reported my airplane as traffic to them, and I entered the pattern, made the turns and landed into mostly a headwind of 14 gusting to 22. As I taxied away from the runway, I reported "clear" and asked the tower if I really only had 10 minutes to be out of the ramp area, as the published time of the departure TFR was then. He checked and came back with "20 minutes."

I noticed that now all of the gates had guards on them. There were three armed guards at the other end of the T-hangars, and they looked very interested in me when I picked up a pitot cover from between the hangars and replaced it on the airplane that lost it due to the wind. I waved at them and they became less interested as I made my way to the people gate.

After exiting, I parked across the street to see if I could get a glimpse of Marine One returning. As I waited, I was pleased to note that there were signs that security is much better for this operation than I had witnessed when the president was first flying in here. They are doing what you would think they should do, and naturally, I won't say what that is. Marine One came in from the other direction and I only saw the rotor blades near Air Force One.

Sharing the facilities with the president is not a big deal...certainly not as bad as going through one of the security checks for a commerical flight. His security is more like common sense than what you experience with the TSA (just my opinion). You CAN fly when he is around, but you have to follow the TFR rules and use your own common sense.]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98624/98624#msg-98624 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 17:30:46 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98583/98583#msg-98583 TomR
Looks like I'll need to be mindful of some restricted and MIL airspace on the way there, not to mention PHL Class B, but seems easy enough to deal with.]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98583/98583#msg-98583 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 12:10:38 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98434/98434#msg-98434 Rob
Would appreciate anyone familiar with advice on how to get there from the East/South.]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98434/98434#msg-98434 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:19:14 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/56213/98363#msg-98363 Kevin
Skaneateles is probably not in the best of shape but I flew in there last summer and did several touch and gos and didn't notice any potholes or anything like that. The runway appeared adequate to me. I grew up around there (I live in SC now) and I don't think I've ever seen the grass strip used so I can't tell you anything about that. I think the asphalt is your best bet. It is under new ownership now and they are making improvements.

As far as Doug's goes, unfortunately it is not located at the field. It's well worth the trip into town (a couple of miles) and the Village of Skaneateles is certainly a nice place to spend a day.

I'll have to check out Oswego next time I'm up there (we go home quite a bit in the summer, as my wife and I both have family up there), thanks for the tip!


Kevin]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/56213/98363#msg-98363 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 11:13:10 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/98266#msg-98266 dakota Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/98266#msg-98266 Sun, 06 Apr 2008 10:41:23 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98249/98249#msg-98249 Leslie
Thank You
Leslie :)]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/98249/98249#msg-98249 Sat, 05 Apr 2008 21:23:20 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/98210#msg-98210 Dave T
Are you talking about crossing around V-263? Would be some lower and not much farther.

Had a bad experience at your airport 8 years ago. Came out to look at an airplane and turned out the pre-buy guy and the airpane dealer were in cahoots. Took me a day to figure it out.

Richard,

Will get with you later on the cabin rental.

Dave T]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/98210#msg-98210 Sat, 05 Apr 2008 10:53:18 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97236/98053#msg-98053 Frank Norwitch
Yup, San Juan is ok for about one visit, I mean how much rum can you drink and how many butterflies do you want to see? St. Thomas does have about the best Rolex, diamond and gold prices around, but the place is too touristy (?) for my tastes. I was just there on business recently, stayed at Bluebeard's castle - what a dump, but it is one of the better places. Next time you end up there, charter one of the local sailboats for a day's snorkling at one of the nearby islands. Makes for a wonderful day and not very pricey (hint: bring fruit from your cabin for the crew of the sailboat, they don't get much fresh fruit there and it is terribly overpriced).

Frank.]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97236/98053#msg-98053 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:55:15 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97953/97953#msg-97953 bogey
I am not affiliated with either of these businesses and had never met any of them before. By the way, all this happended around 7 pm on a Friday evening. Happy Flying.

bj]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97953/97953#msg-97953 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:30:16 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97236/97952#msg-97952 bogey
We just got back from our first cruise, a Roayal Carribean cruise. Eastern side of the islands with stop in San Juan, St. Thomas and St. Marten. We were on the Freedom of the Seas. I cannot say enough good things about the boat, service or food. I do not care to go back to San Juan or St. Thomas. St. Marten was fun on the French side and the airport is the one where they almost land on the beach.

In another post I am going to sing the praises of Bob and Terry at Bobby's Landing at KHWO. They went above and beyond to take care of us late on a Sunday afternoon. Tony at Aerospace Electronics took care of an autopilot problem (Lance II) I had and we never met. These folks really set the standard for good service. I am from middle georgia (pxe) and needed the autopilot to get home IFR. I would have been in a tight if they had not taken care of me while I was gone.]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97236/97952#msg-97952 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:19:39 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/97943#msg-97943 alex Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/97943#msg-97943 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 11:12:20 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/97941#msg-97941 Dave T
Dave T]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/97941#msg-97941 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 09:05:16 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/97922#msg-97922 Leigh Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/97922#msg-97922 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:36:45 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/97906#msg-97906 Davd T
Been trying to get her to go with me to Albuquerque also, not that far from Fort Worth and think I could follow I-40 over the pass. I have a Cherokee 180D.

Dave T]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/97906#msg-97906 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:34:56 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/97904#msg-97904 alex Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/97904#msg-97904 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 17:55:46 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/97899#msg-97899 Dave T
Appreciate the thought.

Dave T]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/97899#msg-97899 Tue, 01 Apr 2008 17:13:47 -0500 http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/97844#msg-97844 alex Montrose is the low way in and mountains should not be a worry for you. It is my intention to fly into Montrose on my way to Gunnison,any other way and your dealing with the BIG mountains.]]> Travel http://forums.piperowner.org/read/8/97713/97844#msg-97844 Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:56:31 -0500